(The following is a Tony Banks interview which appeared in the now defunct Genesis Magazine, issue 38, Winter 85/86. Scanned by OCRtechnology.)

An exclusive interview with Tony in deepest Surrey - and deep tracts of snow outside.

Geoff: Since you wound up the last Genesis tour, what projects have you been working on?

Tony: Well I tried my hand at doing some film things which have gone with varying degrees of success. What I spent the first few months doing was the film 2010 - it ended up obviously with me not doing the thing, 'cos the guy gave me the sack half way through. It was a strange project because he'd liked the music I'd done for the film 'The Shout' - which of course was from my first solo album, a song called 'From The Undertow'. He knew it well enough to sing it, so heobviously liked it, and I thought 'I'm onto an easy one here' as that sort of thing comes very easily to me - I can do it in my sleep. I made up a tape to go with what little he'd got of the film at that stage, went to the film set and everything, got involved. I went backhome and sent him a tape of some things I'd written - about half a dozen pieces, one of which I thought was very strong and totally right for the film. Anyway, he turned around and didn't like anything I'd sent on this tape.

After that I didn't know quite what to do, so then I did another tape of about a half-dozen simpler ideas I'd done on the piano - none of these turned out either. After that I did one more which he seemed slightly keen on, but not very excited about. So then we had to meet because it just wasn't happening. Before I went I wrote another piece which I played to him when I got there with a few changes in his presence.

I was able to get something he seemed very happy with and I also played a song I had around at the time that he seemed excited aboutand it looked like it was all go. He sent me actual copies of the film and I started doing specific things for sequences in the film. Then he just turned round and said it's not working!

So it was a big disappointment for me because I was quite nervous about it. I was very deflated after that - I'd put a lot into it and suddenly it wasn't there anymore. I had in fact turned down a couple of things to do 2010.

Geoff: Did he just want a reworking of the 2001 theme?

Tony: No, he wanted to use that certainly. I asked him if he wanted me to work on variations and he said he wanted something totally different, but in fact he wanted something very normal. It's easy to say maybe I wasn't up to it but I don't think that's true. I did 'TheWicked Lady' which was an orchestral score, I knew what I was doing - I think I've got quite a natural feel for doing film things, and I've done a couple more since. I think I was just the wrong man for the job for this person.

He wasted my time really and I was annoyed about that. It was a confidence dampener because I'm just starting out in this side of the business and it was not a good experience. The next project was another film score. It was the first thing that came along - I'd had acouple of months not doing music.

Geoff: Was that 'Lorca And The Outlaws'?

Tony: Yes. I was able to use some of the stuff I'd written for '2010' and the director on 'Lorca' seemed very keen. I don't know what's happened to the film - it was a fairly low-key project. They keep wanting to reedit, re-cut it and whether it ends up looking anything like the original does I don't know. If they re-cut it they'll want to re-score it, so that may all have been a complete waste of time. The most interesting part about that was I did two songs for two different sections of the film - one with Toyah and another with Jim Diamond. I enjoyed that a lot, particularly the one with Toyah. It was quite anambitious song, totally unlike anything Toyah's done before, it really used her voice very, very well.

It's a great song, but not a hit single. Unfortunately nowadays no-one's interested in releasing anything that's not a potential hitsingle.

Geoff: That's on the E.P.

Tony: Yeah - we tried an E.P., but that's only if the film ever gets released with the music on it. Record companies are only interested in releasing singles or E.P.s if they've got an album - and I can just about scratch an album. I feel I must be honest to anyone, it's a film thing. It really makes a great side of one album but another side is stretching it a bit - but there's lots of good things in there. It was a very low-budget film so there was no money in it - the whole thing I did on a fairly low key. I did it at home in fact using a tape-recorder I've got there, so the sound on it's fairly rough, apart from the two songs - I did them properly, but I quite like that rough and ready sound. I'm getting very fed up with the slick approach to music nowadays. I yearn for The Kinks, you know, I'm just oldfashioned, I suppose, but I like a few rough edges in music.

Geoff: Well that's the human element coming into it.

Tony: It's that, it's human, it's also errors. There's something quite attractive about that thing where beats don't actually fall absolutely on top of each other. I don't know what it is, it appeals to me anyhow, and the odd thing slightly out of tune! But it's actually very difficult to do that on a recording. Particularly the longer you spend. We spent a long time on this one.

Every time you hear it you hear something slightly wrong - you want to correct it if you listen to it too many times. But with this film thing I was able to do it in such a way - it had to be done quite fast - but I didn't have the chance to review it all, so it comes across as a little bit rough but I think it's quite attractive. The Toyah song and the main theme I think are very strong. I would like to see something happen.

Which brings me on to the last project which was the 'Quicksilver' one. It's an American film, and I was very loathe to do this after '2010' - I really didn't want to do it because I just can't speak to these people. Anyway they said why don't you just go over there; see the film; see if you like it and want to do it. I said 'Well you know if I go over there I'll want to do it'.

I wanted to do something, and thought I might as well give it a go - so I went over there and they seemed very keen, they liked what I'd done for 'Lorca and the Outlaws'. It's one of those films that's got an awful lot of songs in it, and I knew it was going to have that which means in a sense the soundtrack plays a secondary role to that.

But I thought I might be able to write the odd song for it as well - which I did. It was a song with Fish of Marillion which was an interesting project. I enjoyed that - I enjoyed working with him.Fish isn't like what you really think he'd be like from the publicity of the band! He's a very down to earth character, he's a very good lyric writer, and I think it's...

Geoff: There're actually only very few of their songs I can listen to, like 'Kayleigh' - but for the rest of it there are just so many influences of your early period.

Tony: Yes, I'm not crazy about their music at all. I like 'Kayleigh' -I would agree it's strongest thing. I like the voice although it obviously bears a lot of resemblance to Peter - but a lot of that is down to the choice of words and things. In fact he's got a versatile voice but he doesn't try to sound like Peter - that's just the way it comes out - I've been watching him doing it. For example, the song we've got is reminiscent of something almost off 'The Lamb', it works quite well.

Unfortunately the Americans seemed less keen on it because they had no idea who Fish was, and the fact that anyone should be called Fish was even stranger still! But over here - well we'll see when the album comes out - it may be taken more seriously. It's a good song and I'd like to see it do something.

Obviously I wrote much more for the soundtrack than ends up on the album because they're trying to sell it, package it like they always do with a set of potential hit songs - so they managed to tuck me away with a couple of songs at the end of side two. That represents only about 10 per cent of the soundtrack. I did that at home and here (The Farm), and I'm learning all the time how to do it. They seemed very pleased with the sequences I did.

None of it's gone easy - even 'The Wicked Lady' wasn't a terribly straightforward operation, and 'The Shout' certainly wasn't. I haven't done a film yet that's been very satisfying.

Geoff: What, that totally fulfils ?

Tony: I don't think you ever get a film that does that because you're writing to order - so there's some other guy who's got to say. 'Well I don't like this or that'. It's not really what I want to do but I haven no other outlet at the moment. I can't face doing another solo album really, it's just too depressing because it doesn't get the feedback. I know there are a few people amongst those who like the group who would listen to it. I know a lot of them like it a lot, especially 'A Curious Feeling' but you can't seem to get any further than that. I don't think I can do what it takes, which is to sell yourself. I'm not a front man, so I'm not terribly keen, but I like to have an outlet for music - and films are quite a good way. It's given me a position of doing a lot of instrumentals which I probably enjoy doing most - and songs with other artistes but it's difficult for me because I don't really have that much interest in trying to write No. l hitsingles and that is unfortunately what you need to present yourself these days. We're going through a period where a hit single is very important - and that's a bit depressing.

Geoff: I found it was almost ironic that about a year after 'The Fugitive' along came Nik Kershaw with a whole set of songs that appeared to be modelled on it.

Tony: It sounded very like it - there's that song 'The Riddle' which particularly reminds me of 'This Is Love', but then he's got the voice, and I like him very much, I like what he does.

But this is true - there's a heavy influence of sounds and things that I did. But he can sing and project it, and that's the difference. My singing on 'The Fugitive' was better than I expected it to be - it was certainly adequate - at times it was good and at times it was pretty bad. I did a video for 'This Is Love'.

Geoff: Yes, I saw it - I thought it was great.

Tony: Was it?! It was weird for me to do that. I don't feel right trying to be the one, the man. I'm happy half-hiding really - it's my nature. They showed the video quite a bit on MTV in the States. The problem is to get to believe in the idea of promoting the album – I think there were two or three hits which could have been done with other people - you know, presented the right way; particularly 'This Is Love' and 'The Wheels Keep Turning' which got a lot of radio play. I don't like to totally rule out the idea of ever doing that again.

It's interesting the success that Mike's having at the moment - but I think he's diluted himself quite a lot. It's very polished but it doesn't really sound like Mike to me. It's good, you know – and certainly at times it's very good but it sounds like a lot of people. It doesn't really sound like Mike particularly to me. He's got other singers on it obviously but it depends how far you want to go to have a success. I wouldn't want to go that far.

It feels like a production sort of number, and I wouldn't want to do that. I think it's worked on that album - it's a good result and for him that's fine. He treats it as 'Call it Mike & The Mechanics' soit's like a group and he's just part of it. I think of it as his solo album, but it comes across as a lot of other people involved as well. That shows how a song can come through in the end.

My job in the group is to stop us just doing Top 40 material, because I think that with Phil every track on his last album could've been a hit - and Mike, they do it so well. I like to try to introduce those few chord changes that are a bit strange, and make the songs a bit longer, lack of repetition, a few stranger lyrics, not consciously - that's what I like doing and that's what I want to hear.

You are conscious at times of what you're doing is making the thingless commercial - it's a strange feeling that you can do something about it, and make it more musically interesting, but in the same sense you are lowering the number of people who are actually going to buy this record - it's a strange thing to do!

Geoff: I thought you had a very good mix on the last Genesis album where you did have the more immediate songs and you also had bits where you stretched out.

Tony: That's the way we do it - I love simple music, don't get me wrong. I've always been behind it. I wouldn't be satisfied in a group that just did endless songs like 'That's All', which was a great song and musically I'm not against that at all. It's an area I like very much but it's got to be offset by something like 'Home By The Sea' - something a bit more traditional to it.

But this album, in terms of the mix, I would've thought would be similar. But I think the simpler end is a bit stronger. On the last album we didn't have any choice - if we had a song around we put it on. Whereas with this one we're going to choose a bit more - and I think all the songs are stronger than many of the songs on the last album.

Geoff: Do you have a good idea of what you think will be included on this album?

Tony: No - I think we'll probably have a... We can normally decide without too much bloodshed! On the 'Abacab' album I would like to have seen 'You Might Recall' but I was very keen to have 'Whodunnit' on soit's a question of juggling a bit there. The previous album Duke – I would have liked 'Evidence Of Autumn' to have been on that. But what do you leave off? My choice, I would have left off 'Alone Tonight' – a less remarkable offering.

Geoff: How have the new tracks evolved - all joint efforts?

Tony: Yeah - every track's a group effort. That last one we came in the studios a few months ago with nothing at all and have just developed the songs in the studio. The advantage of this is like theearly days really - everybody feels equally involved in every track.You don't get this thing of people slightly gunning for their own tracks.

Geoff: Especially when it comes to decide what's to be on the album.

Tony: Yes. We had a few problems with that, and you feel less a part of it. I remember when... Our first big hit in America was 'Misunderstanding' which was Phil's song, and I never felt much a part of it. I didn't feel I'd contributed much to that song, the piano part was pretty much written on the demo. It's nice when you feel a part of it 'cos I felt much happier with 'Turn It On Again' which was a group song.

I think it's good to all feel involved with each song if you can get that. We credited the tracks to everybody up to 'Lamb' and even the odd track that wasn't from everybody. I think if everyone's credited with it everyone feels equally responsible for it, again. There was no bickering about what was a single or B-side.

That's the other thing - we've always been diplomatic about our B-sides and tried to make them group tracks because B-sides for some strange reason get the writer just as much money as the A-side. So if you're lucky enough to get the B-side!

There's a weird one with that because when Phil had 'Against All Odds', it obviously had Mike's track on the B-side. I don't think a lot of people like that, the feeling of getting in on someone else's act. If there are any singles on the 'Quicksilver' album I'm sure it won't be because of me - this is in America anyway.

Geoff: Didn't Roger Daltrey do a for it?

Tony : Yes - it was in the sequence I originally wanted to write. I don't think you should have a song there anyway - it should be a piece of instrumental music. The song is a Giorgio Moroder song and it's parfor the course, a bit dull. That's the trouble - what tends to be successful in America I don't tend to be that excited about. They like things very straight-forward. I'm not saying a few good songs can't get through I liked 'Easy Lover' very much. I get a bit depressed sometimes by what seems to be very popular - I've never really been a top ten man - the last time I liked the top ten was probably 1966 but that shows my age really.

Geoff: I wouldn't say that, because it was a particularly good time anyway.

Tony: Well yes - but I'm sure people would nowadays say the same. There are some very good things that creep in and out, but a lot of stuff I find a bit tedious. I think it's the fact that it's all albumtracks I find a bit depressing. Albums sound like every track is an attempt at a single - and there's nothing worse than a track that's trying to be a single and doesn't work. A good single is great but the only person who's impressed me is probably Nik Kershaw - but then as you say that's because he's influenced by things from our area and that tends to make it more accessible to me.

I think he uses nice chords and melodies and he has a little extra to his songs sometimes too whereas nowadays you just have one kind of level all the way through a song, and I find that boring. The rhythm machine gets going, the sequencer starts up and you're away - that's the song. I think 'well o.k. it's a bit dull' - I'd like to hear a few more changes.

Geoff: Do you think there's quite a lot of pressure on people to do an album of singles?

Tony: I think so.

Geoff: For instance, Sting's now put out five tracks as singles off his album, Springsteen was the same with 'Born In The USA'..

Tony: I think there's incredible pressure. I think people don't see any reason not to for a start. I mean some people are happy to do that - they don't have to try and it works out that way, a bit like Phil on the last album. Once you've carved your niche, then if you do something good in your own niche it's going to be successful. Do you know what I mean?

But first you've got to come up with a niche. You see an album sells totally off the back of a single if you have a good song. If you've got a number one then you've got a No. l album. It doesn't matter what's on the album, it could be complete garbage - and often is! So people are obviously going to try all the time for that single.

If they get that one single that's a big hit, then the rest doesn't matter. It's not a fair criticism of most people but sometimes it feels a bit like that. You get a few filler tracks, you know, pad it out a bit.

Back in the '60s people had hit singles without having hit albums quite easily - if albums were strong all the way through, like a Beatles album always was - then obviously that did very well. The Kinks albums tended to be quite strong all the way through - much as I loved their singles, albums are always a bit of a disappointment with me.

Geoff: Also you had much more of a split then because you people who were primarily singles artists and also others who remained album artists.

Tony: Well that certainly happened later, towards the period we came through. We were an album band able to have fairly successful albums without having any single success at all. But you can't do that now.

Geoff: So what's the general plan for the year - you've got a few more weeks of mixing?

Tony: A couple more weeks, yes. Come the end of February, Phil's doing this Eric Clapton album - producing it; and Mike's going to do a tour with The Mechanics.

Geoff: Will that be here and in the States?

Tony: Well I think it depends a little bit on what happens - if the album does something over here - it's now doing a little bit better than it did, but first off he released it to nothing at all. Obviously if it's doing well in the States it might help a bit here. I think it's difficult to go onstage into an audience and perform a whole album of stuff that no-one's heard. But if the album's sold a few copies, you've only got one album's worth of stuff to play. You've got to do a whole set you've got to get another 45 mins. of music. I like touring in small doses.

Geoff: But if you add up all the weeks that you are on the road it's an enormous amount.

Tony: Well yes - up until 1978 it was an incredible amount and we decided after that we weren't going to do it that way anymore. Mike and I both had a desire to perhaps try something of our own, and Phil wanted to sort out his life at the time. So in 1979 we took this sort of break year, which was important for us. When we tour we like to try to cover as comprehensively as we can. What we want to avoid this year is just doing two major places in England.

Geoff: You can alternate that with each tour.

Tony: Yes, as the gaps get longer between tours - it'll work out about three years since we last toured - then obviously you want to try to cover things. It's a totally different audience, every year your audience changes. We know that at the moment from the last album we could tour every night somewhere in the world - you have to be selective, really. It gets a bit wearying, particularly in America where there are so many places to play and every place is a bit samey. I'm much happier playing Europe - it's quite stimulating but then the halls aren't as good really ...

Geoff: When do you think that might be - towards the end of the year?

Tony: Well we're hoping to start the tour in September in America, I think by the time we do Europe and the U.K. it'll be Spring 1987 – it sounds an awful long time, and I hate planning my life like this -anything could happen. But we're looking at it to try to do it - we'rejust trying to work out when and how.

Geoff: So will the album come out a little in advance of that?

Tony: Quite a lot in advance, I think - they'll probably release the album in June and release a single before that. I don't know what we've got for that - I don't know what a single is anymore!

end of interview.